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Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:50 am
by TwinTurbo
FatBoy wrote:Bit rich trying to blame Ray or Rolf for that one...
And i hate agreeing with Gary !

I have no problem agreeing with you Paul :lol: :lol: :lol:


Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:30 am
by mikrace
FatBoy wrote:Bit rich trying to blame Ray or Rolf for that one...

And i hate agreeing with Gary !


Well thats fine. You can think its ok for a car miles out in front to risk what eventually did happen. Me, i would have rolled out of it and cruised behind them. He was closing at a 50kph difference and on the far right side of the track. I doubt the BMW saw him at all. Especially since he would have been looking for the rx7, not the leader closing that fast.

Yes, all the footage looked like he turned in front of Ray, and he may have done. Unless it was done on purpose to 'block' a car he did see, then it is easily a rookie error that could have been avoided by the far more experienced driver, who was not racing anyone.

I think you old timers forget where you came from sometimes........

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:45 am
by TwinTurbo
The problem is Rolf moved over/allowed room to be overtaken, with the same closing speeds, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the over taker to expect the same to happen with the car next in the queue. I seem to remember this conversation was about "newbies" and this is a perfect example.


Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:04 am
by mikrace
TwinTurbo wrote:The problem is Rolf moved over/allowed room to be overtaken, with the same closing speeds, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the over taker to expect the same to happen with the car next in the queue. I seem to remember this conversation was about "newbies" and this is a perfect example.


Cheers
Gary


This statement is infuriating to me and I have no words that are not nasty... so I wont say anything. I hope Bathurst goes great for everyone that gets a spot in 2017.

Good luck with your campaign to get new comers to the class Gary.

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:57 am
by RX4some
mikrace wrote:
FatBoy wrote:Bit rich trying to blame Ray or Rolf for that one...

And i hate agreeing with Gary !


Well thats fine. You can think its ok for a car miles out in front to risk what eventually did happen. Me, i would have rolled out of it and cruised behind them. He was closing at a 50kph difference and on the far right side of the track. I doubt the BMW saw him at all. Especially since he would have been looking for the rx7, not the leader closing that fast.

Yes, all the footage looked like he turned in front of Ray, and he may have done. Unless it was done on purpose to 'block' a car he did see, then it is easily a rookie error that could have been avoided by the far more experienced driver, who was not racing anyone.

I think you old timers forget where you came from sometimes........





From where i was sitting, right in the drivers seat, coming onto conrod my car Jumped out of 4th and the BMW passed me and was pulling away, we had blue flags going all the way down conrod, I looked in the mirror and saw Hislop closing in fast with lights ablaze, lifted off and let him through, what Andrew saw or did is up to his recollection, but the chaos occurred and Im out for the year with a busted car,

On a lighter note, the support and offers of help I have had since this happened has been overwhelming, thank you to all those people.

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:13 pm
by TwinTurbo
RX4some wrote:From where i was sitting, right in the drivers seat, coming onto conrod my car Jumped out of 4th and the BMW passed me and was pulling away, we had blue flags going all the way down conrod, I looked in the mirror and saw Hislop closing in fast with lights ablaze, lifted off and let him through, what Andrew saw or did is up to his recollection, but the chaos occurred and Im out for the year with a busted car

Good point Rolf, blue flags and headlights on :idea:


On a lighter note, the support and offers of help I have had since this happened has been overwhelming, thank you to all those people.
Which is what IP is all about =D> =D> =D>

Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:26 pm
by RoyBoy302
TwinTurbo wrote:
RX4some wrote:
Good point Rolf, blue flags and headlights on :idea:


Cheers
Gary


TwinTurbo wrote:The problem is Rolf moved over/allowed room to be overtaken, with the same closing speeds, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the over taker to expect the same to happen with the car next in the queue. I seem to remember this conversation was about "newbies" and this is a perfect example.


Cheers
Gary


Not trying to lay blame on anyone here BUT , Gary I do remember that the "correct" way , as instructed in all driver training is ................

Maintain your line and let the overtaking car go around you . It is the responsibility of the passing car to do that when and where it is safe.

Gary , when was the last time you "pulled over" going "full tilt" ( for that particular car ) entering and midway through the chase ???

Yes , thought so ...............

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:03 pm
by TwinTurbo
RoyBoy302 wrote:
TwinTurbo wrote:
RX4some wrote:Good point Rolf, blue flags and headlights on :idea:

TwinTurbo wrote:The problem is Rolf moved over/allowed room to be overtaken, with the same closing speeds, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the over taker to expect the same to happen with the car next in the queue. I seem to remember this conversation was about "newbies" and this is a perfect example.
Not trying to lay blame on anyone here BUT , Gary I do remember that the "correct" way , as instructed in all driver training is ................
Maintain your line and let the overtaking car go around you . It is the responsibility of the passing car to do that when and where it is safe.
Gary , when was the last time you "pulled over" going "full tilt" ( for that particular car ) entering and midway through the chase ???
Yes , thought so ...............

Actually Roy it was early last year, ~275 kph through the chase, it drifts (mild understeer) to the left so I usually would straighten and brake whilst moving (very gently) to the right for the wide entry and late apex for the left hander. But there was an Audi R8 moving to the right of me, so I did the braking a little early and in a straight line ie; keeping a couple of car widths to the left of my normal line. Giving the Audi enough room to brake and take his normal line. I actually "maintained my line" and didn't move to the right to take a normal entry. Did my fastest time, so it didn't cost much. 8)

Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:18 pm
by RoyBoy302
What race was that in Gary ?

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 7:10 pm
by TwinTurbo
RoyBoy302 wrote:What race was that in Gary ?

Drive day Roy, good fun, glad I wasn't paying though.

Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:03 pm
by Andy San
gmontrack wrote:there is no "weeding out" of newbies Michael, actually trying to ensure that there are some given a chance to run :)


If this is the case why are we picking 'newbie' names out of a hat for only one of our states spots when the 'veterans' who have run previously are getting 5 out of the 6 spots allocated?

A good percentage of the newbies might be new to bathurst but by using that selection criteria it's ruling out quite a lot of competitive cars and drivers just because they havent been able to get in previously.

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 10:04 am
by gmontrack
Hi Andy
The E of I form outlined how things are going to work so I'm sorry if that seems unfear but its a simple case of mathematics, there are 60 spots and over 100 people wanting to run so it is never going to work out for some.
I have made a point of trying to squeeze as many newbies on the grid as I can. Yes a couple of states where asked to pick a name from a list sorry if you missed out, but unfortunately that's what happens.

GM

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:22 am
by Steve thomas
Sadly not everyone has the States members best interests in mind. A set number of entries should go to each state and be drawn in a ballot.

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:24 am
by full_noise
So where is the entry list posted??

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 12:47 pm
by gmontrack
"Sadly not everyone has the States members best interests in mind. A set number of entries should go to each state and be drawn in a ballot."

Steve, that's just what I have done, gone back over the last 3 years and got an average and then used that as a guide for each state. But I'm not a fan of just drawing names out of a hat for this event and as such indicated that in the E of I form which states , some preference is given to those that have supported the event previously.
I understand that not everyone agrees which is okay but that is how it will be.

There will be no entry list until entry forms come out, people have paid and all is confirmed which will be several months away, as it has been in previous years.

GM

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:16 am
by Andy San
gmontrack wrote:"Sadly not everyone has the States members best interests in mind. A set number of entries should go to each state and be drawn in a ballot."

Steve, that's just what I have done, gone back over the last 3 years and got an average and then used that as a guide for each state. But I'm not a fan of just drawing names out of a hat for this event and as such indicated that in the E of I form which states , some preference is given to those that have supported the event previously.
I understand that not everyone agrees which is okay but that is how it will be.

There will be no entry list until entry forms come out, people have paid and all is confirmed which will be several months away, as it has been in previous years.

GM


Surely averaging out the entries received for the current year is a much more accurate way of dividing up who gets what. Going off previous entries doesn't take into account the growing number each year, nor will it ever change the allocated spots. SA had 12 eois this year if I'm not mistaken - how will that be taken into consideration next year when we still only have 6 spots available because that's all we were allocated this year?

Personally I think the entry form should be posted up on the ipra bathurst website, and only that site, at a given day and time which everyone has plenty of notice about when it will be.
That's how a lot of events which are oversubscribed for numbers seem to do it, and it works pretty well.
That way there's no expressions of interest and everyone submitting an entry pays a deposit on the spot and has a chance of getting in if they do it early enough.

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 12:19 pm
by TwinTurbo
Realistically there's no 100% "fair" system of selecting competitors for a strictly limited field, which is what Bathurst is, there is no chance of expanding it. Someone, somewhere, somehow will have a perfectly valid argument that someone should have been included and/or someone should have been excluded. It is also worth keeping in mind that in order to get invited back next year IP has to turn on a good show and perhaps more importantly not stuff up the main game. This ultimately means reliability, making it through the weekend without big accidents that take hours to clean up and not spraying 10 litres of oil and/or coolant all across the mountain. IP wouldn't get invited back if we, say, started the weekend with 60 cars and ended up with 30 in the last race. Or if we delayed the start of Qualifying for the 12 Hour competitors because of a huge clean up exercise. That's why history is so important, being able to rely on the driver and their car. Hence the Promotor, based on the information at hand, making the best choices in the interests of everyone, not just for this year but the next year and the one after that.


Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 9:03 am
by RoyBoy302
TwinTurbo wrote:
RoyBoy302 wrote:What race was that in Gary ?

Drive day Roy, good fun, glad I wasn't paying though.

Cheers
Gary


Ahh so you weren't RACING ..................

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:01 am
by TwinTurbo
RoyBoy302 wrote:
TwinTurbo wrote:
RoyBoy302 wrote:What race was that in Gary ?
Drive day Roy, good fun, glad I wasn't paying though.

Ahh so you weren't RACING ..................

Nope, just trying to keep the LM8 behind me, whilst not damaging a $150+K car, and trying to beat my best ever non slick lap time around the Mt. There were 6 cars with drivers that I didn't know pretty close together, so I had to use the rear vision mirrors. Some of the guys had trouble just seeing what was in front of them let alone what was behind or beside. That's where experience is important, which after all is what we were discussing and what you challenged my opinion on. I'm a firm believer in racing experience being very important at Bathurst, especially for people who perhaps haven't been lapped before by cars with huge speed differentials. Personally I wouldn't like to see rookies with almost zero experience getting a run in the Bathurst IP Challenge. Some people may consider that unfair on them, but I consider it unfair on the other competitors if something happens. Not just unfair for that race, or even that year but for years to come. That's just my opinion, which admittedly isn't worth much.


Cheers
Gary

Re: 2017 IPRA Bathurst Challenge

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:08 am
by Andy San
TwinTurbo wrote:
RoyBoy302 wrote:
TwinTurbo wrote:
RoyBoy302 wrote:What race was that in Gary ?
Drive day Roy, good fun, glad I wasn't paying though.

Ahh so you weren't RACING ..................

Nope, just trying to keep the LM8 behind me, whilst not damaging a $150+K car, and trying to beat my best ever non slick lap time around the Mt. There were 6 cars with drivers that I didn't know pretty close together, so I had to use the rear vision mirrors. Some of the guys had trouble just seeing what was in front of them let alone what was behind or beside. That's where experience is important, which after all is what we were discussing and what you challenged my opinion on. I'm a firm believer in racing experience being very important at Bathurst, especially for people who perhaps haven't been lapped before by cars with huge speed differentials. Personally I wouldn't like to see rookies with almost zero experience getting a run in the Bathurst IP Challenge. Some people may consider that unfair on them, but I consider it unfair on the other competitors if something happens. Not just unfair for that race, or even that year but for years to come. That's just my opinion, which admittedly isn't worth much.


Cheers
Gary


And this is where the problem lies Gary, Just because someone hasn't raced at Bathurst before it doesn't make them a rookie with zero experience at racing.
History has shown that even the most experienced guys can make mistakes all on their own, such as Ray a couple of years ago.