IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

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TwinTurbo
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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by TwinTurbo » Sun May 12, 2019 9:16 pm

We run as part of the CAMS NSW State Championship, the categories that run at each meeting are decided at the beginning of the year. Chopping and changing categories at individual race meetings isn’t practical, as every category knows and publicises it’s calendar at the start of the year. The NSW MotorRace Panel and the 2 circuit promoters negotiate and then sign off on the schedule. Each category commits to the calendar, so that their competitors can plan their year. Inviting another category to a race meeting 2 weeks (after early entries close) before it happens is never going to be accepted.

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Gary

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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by Born Again Racer » Sun May 12, 2019 9:38 pm

I’m not suggesting adding a category at last minute. Maybe the organisers should talk to the Victorian series on how they run theirs

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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by TwinTurbo » Mon May 13, 2019 7:40 am

If IP start off combined and then split that means another category has to agree to drop that meeting.
If IP start off split and then combined that means another category has to be added to that meeting.
Neither of the NSW promoters will take less money or change their schedule just for IP.
None of the NSW categories will drop a scheduled round or add an unscheduled round for IP.

We have asked many times, as recently as Round 1, and the best that we could get was half the qualifying time in exchange for splitting it.

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Gary

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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by TwinTurbo » Mon May 13, 2019 7:55 am

None of the above is the real issue. If we promote a meeting as having split grids and then combine them, after competitors have entered, then we’ll have a lot of unhappy members. If we promote a meeting as possibly split or combined then competitors won’t enter and/or will wait until they know for sure what the format is for the meeting.

Personally I have absolutely no doubt that combined grids will mean we will lose U2L competitors, more every year. There’s 20+ years of history in IP Nationally to substantiate that view.

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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by mikrace » Mon May 13, 2019 6:04 pm

TwinTurbo wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 9:52 am
mikrace wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:35 am
The racing through the field was excellent and it was a great show by everyone!
The combined grid was definitely far better to watch. It was excellent to drive in. The club meeting held last year to discuss it showed a far majority towards combined grids, so until we start oversubscribing grids every round for NSW should be combined next year.
I didn't see many of unders cars getting held up in corners and passed down the straights apart from Cooper at the front may be. Most cars were similar lap times and straight line power in their respective racing packs.
Absolutely not picking on anyone mentioned, everyone was racing and being considerate of fellow competitors.

You obviously weren't looking Mik (especially in your rear vision mirror), a car slowed to 1.48's that is proven on the day capable of 1.45's. Justin started 7th went back to 11th off the start (U2L FWD versus O2L RWD). Times from Natsoft, names from memory (always risky).

Lap 1 Sector 1 - 46.4 Trapped behind a Commodore (I don't recall who), Macca (fastest lap 1.48.7), Stig (1.46.9) and you (1.46.1)
Lap 1 Sector 3 - 30.1 Trapped behind Macca, Stig and you

Lap 2 Sector 1 - 32.1 Trapped behind Stig and you
Lap 2 Sector 2 - 45.6 Trapped behind Stig
Lap 2 Sector 3 - 29.5 Clears the O2L cars
Lap 2 - 1.47.2498

Lap 3 - Sector 1 - 31.3 More
Lap 3 - Sector 2 - 44.5 Representative
Lap 3 - Sector 3 - 29.9 Times
Lap 3 - 1.45.3975

Finished 7th, 2.9 seconds behind 6th who gained 5.3 seconds on lap 1.

Personally I don't consider 1.45.4 and 1.48.7 or 1.46.9 to be "similar lap times". But that's probably just me :wink:

Probably more relevant, there were 17 x U2L cars in qualifying for Round 1 and 24 x O2L cars. That's 41 cars which is greater than the grid capacity for Wakefield Park, so there is no choice but to have 2 grids on the schedule which is determined before entries open (ie; after the schedule is determined they won't adjust it to accommodate the actual number of entries). So if we combine grids then we risk knocking back entries. Which used to happen regularly before we split the grids, that's why we split the grids.

But even more telling, as at Friday there were only 15 x O2L cars entered, that's 9 less than Round 1. Whilst U2L entries are much the same at 16. What I draw from this is that there isn't problem with U2L, they support IP with consistent numbers, O2L not so much. So exactly who does combined grids benefit or attract, plainly not the U2L guys.

The stupidity of combined grids was shown by the qualifying where for safety reasons we split the grids, because with 41 cars there would still be cars coming out of the dummy grid whilst cars were at full speed down the straight. The full grid capacity is applicable for races but it doesn't work for qualifying, as a result we had to sacrifice 50% of the qualifying time (the only schedule change that they would agree to).

If we ever knock back even 1 single car (because of a full grid) we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Cheers
Gary
Gary,

You crack me up sometimes. So selective in what you see. It reminds me of a pet that will pretend they can't hear you when they are playing and you call their name, but open a packet of chips with the TV on in the lounge and they will at the back door begging within seconds!

LOL!! Trapped you say?? You mean racing with? Since you like your facts to be straightened, I passed Justin around the turn 3 / 4 area in the mess of cars that the first lap usually is, not off the start, but in the turns like i passed most others i was "trapped"... ( :badgrin: :badgrin: still cracks me up) behind. I did eventually see Justin in my mirrors catching me when he finally got clear of the others that did pass him off the start line. I know why he caught me. Lots of could have/would have/should have's in this world, no need to air it out when it is not relevant. He did beat me. Well done to Justin and i am glad he was happy his car behaved well all weekend. I suppose that means well done to you too Gary. =D>

We could go through all the Natsoft data from all the cars and pick what data we needed to prove a certain point... Most people will be slower when they are RACING with other cars. The LMv8's are hard to RACE and often it feels like you maybe TRAPPED... LOL.... but the u2L cars are not getting blown away on the straights and are doing similar lap times to the majority of 02L cars. So isn't the racing as fair for unders as it is overs?

As far as o2L entries for rd2 goes.. well it is probably a few different reasons for everyone. Some people just don't like racing at WP. Maybe we only got so many at SMSP due to the COmbined Grid? Personally I have trouble finding the time and money to race every round and usually make 2 to 3 a year. I really want to race so i can try and battle with Waldo again, plus anyone else who is around me to play with, but i don't think i can make it.

I made it to round 1 due to the possibility of a full capacity grid AND the combined grid. I wanted to race more cars that have similar power and corner speed to my car so i was in a bigger battle pack. I don't see this as a selfish view, but maybe it is. I thought everyone wants to have more cars to race with, but maybe i am wrong. Just seems to me that not wanting this is for Time Attack or Super Sprints. I could use the entry numbers in a data argument about how combined grids meant more over 2 litre cars turned up.. but a single instance isn't enough, we need to have more combined rounds to collect the data :wink: :wink:

Now for the serious stuff....
I think your paragraph i have highlighted above is just plain ludicrous, short-sighted and explains everything i believe is wrong with your personal view and influence on IPRA;
1. For starters, race car drivers are good enough to be trusted to control their cars, but not when a slower car is coming out of the pits? ](*,) How does any Endurance race ever work??? If people want to weave all over the road to warm their tyres out the pit lane then they should be sent straight to the Tower for punishment. Anyone who has done state championship level go-karting or other classes with full grids, knows that there is a skill and talent in finding a "hole" to punch out a lap. This is done by driving around periodically slower in safe areas to achieve and after a lap or 2 at most, the tyres have been gently warmed up and prime for a quick lap. How is anyone going to learn this skill if they are protected from it??
Weaving in qualifying is a dangerous act, at anytime, because it is near impossible to predict where they are going to end up on the track. It should be banned. Weaving in a controlled environment like the warm up lap is its only place on a race track.

2. You think Combined Grids was an act of stupidity because the grid was at ~80% capacity? I have no words for this statement.

3. Do you never want a full grid of U2L cars? Would you have it capped at 20 cars at all times to Qualifying would be as you want it? Where is your head at Gary, I see no logic in your argument. Thinking this way will never see IPRA grow / return to greatness in NSW. Isn't that what we all want?

Maybe this is just all my problem and since i can't dedicate the time to join the committee to try and make a change I will just have to race in Victoria.
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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by Electro » Mon May 13, 2019 8:23 pm

mikrace wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:04 pm




As far as o2L entries for rd2 goes.. well it is probably a few different reasons for everyone. Some people just don't like racing at WP. Maybe we only got so many at SMSP due to the COmbined Grid? Personally I have trouble finding the time and money to race every round and usually make 2 to 3 a year. I really want to race so i can try and battle with Waldo again, plus anyone else who is around me to play with, but i don't think i can make it.

I much prefer Wakefield to Eastern Creek, and Mike, I am running at WP in a couple of weeks and expect you there punk. And I don't want any bullshit excuses.

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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by mikrace » Mon May 13, 2019 9:40 pm

Sounds like Electromaster wants to sponsor me for this round Dave ?? :P
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Re: IPRANSW Rnd 1 SMSP April 6/7th 2019 - entries open

Post by TwinTurbo » Mon May 13, 2019 11:13 pm

Lots of words Mik, but no facts or data. It's actually pretty simple, if we run combined grids 20+ years of history has proven that we will end up with similar numbers of U2L cars to the other States. For example Round 1 IPRAVic 7 x U2L cars, Round 1 IPRAWA 4 x U2L cars, Round 1 IPRASA 3 x U2L cars. That's 3 States (I can't find numbers for Qld or Tas) that combined didn't have the same # of U2L cars as IPRANSW did at Round 1.

If that's what you want then go right ahead with pushing combined grids.


Cheers
Gary

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